Mon$anto vs. Mother Earth
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That must cause some cognitive dissonance when you consider some of the good things they do.
I guess it's never enough. -
Well, I suppose 'Business is Business' and commercial companies will do what they have been set up to do! I'm happy enough that there are plenty of 'watchdogs' that will bring to light any possibly questionable proposals / actions.
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One 'broader' issue not yet mentioned is that it only needs one or two nitwits in the process-chain to do something unexpectedly idiotic [people can always be guaranteed to be more stupid than you might ever have expected!] OR for some rare and unanticipated natural event to occur etc... Then you are screwed.
The nuclear industry is strictly regulated worldwide - but.... we still had Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Seascale, Fukashima...
The EU food-supply is probably the most strictly regulated in the world - but... anyone like a horse-meat burger, kosher/halal burger with added pork etc ?
Fracking has to be safe, doesn't it? - after all we get lots of low cost energy through it... there might we toxic-gas emissions, ground-water pollution, minor earthquakes etc... but...
FEMA will help out in disasters - but see New Orleans and then the recent East coast storm...
Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, NIS, SS, 'the police' and a myriad of other agencies, continue to erode everyone's constitutional rights whilst they say they are trying to protect them, but the bombs still go off and lunatics still mow down the innocents - no change there then.So... do we really trust that 'our' best interests are served by:
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The 'commercial companies' [that includes the manufacturers AND the farmers - everyone in the process that stops with 'us'], whose prime motive is profit.
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The 'politicians', who have forgotten what their job actually is [they now serve themselves not their country].
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The 'lobbyists', who on all sides are biased in favor of their own limited view points [that includes pro-GM and anti-GM groups].
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The 'scientists' who come up with these ideas, devoid of moral compunction.
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The 'designers', 'technologists', 'engineers' etc who realize the scientists' concepts into day-to-day objects for us to use/fret-over...
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The 'government agencies' who seem increasingly unaccountable to their 'bosses' [politicians/us]...
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.None of the above..
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OK then it's settled...people suck!
seriously, well said TIG. Each move must be weighed, a cost benefit analysis done.
but Audentes fortuna iuvat
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how's this for a coinkydink
Monsanto buys Beeologics, working to save pollinating bees.
http://current.com/1e85ikc -
Yeah, 'working to save bees'
. From what I can see, bees are quite capable of minding themselves if their environment is not screwed up by corporations that 'force' nature in unnatural directions.I found this interesting, http://www.gmwatch.org/component/content/article/11621-gm-crops-and-honey-bee-research
I also posted elsewhere on the Corner Bar about the good news from the EU that certain pesticides are to be banned for a two year period until their effects on the bee population is further investigated.
The 'dots are joining up'!!!
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Clearly the solution is GMbees that are resistant to pesticides.
Your GMwatch link says they cant prove their assertions...they say the have no evidence. As usual. I have a problem with banning things till more research is done.
Are they going to ban cars because all the bees in California are smeared all over the windshields of automobiles speeding along the highways next to those huge almond groves?
Probably not.
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Well, I suppose cars could be banned AND as far as I'm concerned BIG hungry 4x4s with no tow hitch should be banned immediately if the owner has no practical reason to use one other than arguing that they offer more protection to the occupants in a crash.
Cars could be taken out of the equation and their effects on the environment would fade after a while to some extent. However GM products are a different matter from what I can see. Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to bees.
As you say, it looks like we are going to have 'GMbees that are resistant to pesticides'! I suppose the next step would then be GM people that are resistant to GM foods
At the end of the day Nature will level things out as she always does!
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mics_24
It's a fallacy that glyphosate breaks down in soils (it may break down in some soil types - but not all soils). If glyphosate is applied where the soil is high in phosphate the glyphosate and its breakdown products can remain in that soil for some time seehttp://www.charcoalfinland.fi/Helander%20et%20al.%20Trends%20in%20Plant%20Science%202012.pdf
Also put phosphate glyphosate soil into google scholar - you'll find plenty of concern over this issue.
Certainly many publishers are outside the university/academic spectrum but then Monsanto sponsors many universities and labs so you can't expect researchers to bite the hand that feeds.
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@unearthed said:
Certainly many publishers are outside the university/academic spectrum but then Monsanto sponsors many universities and labs so you can't expect researchers to bite the hand that feeds.
Nigel, thinking about the above, I did a quick search to see what Greenpeace has to say about Monsanto ..... not good news! BTW, I'd consider to be fairly independent by any measure
Monsanto files patent for new invention: the pig
Greenpeace researcher uncovers chilling patent plans
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/monsanto-pig-patent-111/ -
oh we wouldn't want people resistant to diseases caused by GMfoods now would we...
Oh wait...they already are. -
@mics_54 said:
oh we wouldn't want people resistant to diseases caused by GMfoods now would we...
Oh wait...they already are.What? that makes no sense, what are you saying?
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I recognize anti-GMO protestations as an attack on capitalism and nothing more.
Let's just say that I believe Forbes before GMOWatch.org.
Science can fix natures failings.
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/me waits for the domed cities needed to survive potentially catastrophic climate swings.
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@mics_54 said:
I recognize anti-GMO protestations as an attack on capitalism and nothing more.
Let's just say that I believe Forbes before GMOWatch.org.
Science can fix natures failings.
I'll voice my opinion on what I see as dangerous and 'unnatural' food growing methods forced on farmers from companies that appear to me to have no other interests other than hard cash profits.
As I have said earlier in this thread, I really would like to see the farmers and growers having full control over their seeds and now livestock!
On this side of the pond, particular Ireland, there are very successful co-operatives / companies, the Kerry Group for example, where farmers hold a very large and influential shareholding in the company stock. The Kerry Group is a hard nosed business and is run on a global scale. It looks to me that they are being kept 'in check' from what greed driven management can / may like to, get up to GM etc.
Mike, do you trust Greenpeace?
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"Science can fix natures failings."
Seems to me that science is used more to fix human failings ... Nature has done pretty well when left to her own processes.
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AHH I knew it! now humans aren't natural!
nature is polio, aids, syphilis, diptheria, drought, black plague, tsunamis, pestilence, floods, fire, tornados, earthquakes, flu, hurricanes, volcanos ...I could go on for an hour.what humans do...no matter what it is...is nature.
...and no...I wouldn't trust greenpeace
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@mics_54 said:
AHH I knew it! now humans aren't natural!
nature is polio, aids, syphilis, diptheria, drought, black plague, tsunamis, pestilence, floods, fire, tornados, earthquakes, flu, hurricanes, volcanos ...I could go on for an hour.what humans do...no matter what it is...is nature.
...and no...I wouldn't trust greenpeace
Mmmmm ...... you have a point there Mike!Yes, I suppose it could be argued that Big M is acting naturally ...... self preservation etc etc.
I would come back to the original concern, Big M having too much control over food. This I would argue cannot be a good thing. Okay, maybe some to the products they are producing are useful and may even help society to some extent BUT I still think monopolies are a bad thing and should not be allowed.
Have a look at what Philip Howard, a researcher at Michigan State University, has to say, here, The Monsanto Monopoly http://www.gmeducation.org/latest-news/p207220-the%20monsanto%20monopoly.html
It looks to me that monopolies are commonplace in the USA and tolerated by Government to a large extent for various reasons (power of the $) ..... but don't worry as the EU Commission comes down very heavily on monopolies. BTW, I don't have a lot of good things to say about the EU Commission but their stance on monopolies is to be commended.
So when USA farmers get to the stage that they can only get their seeds from Big M etc at exorbitant prices they can always see if its possible to sneak a few seeds in from Europe that can be replanted and replanted and replanted ........ seeds are quite small things after all
BTW, I do trust Greenpeace to a large extent ...... they are one of the only organisations with 'balls'. They believe in action rather than talk!
I have just watched Seeds of Freedom over my lunch break (30 minutes long) and found it quite informative. I recommend it as an eye opener, particularly the case of Percy Schmeiser that nearly lost his farm.
Liz Hosken, UK Director of Gaia Foundation also truck a cord when she said,
'By controlling the seed you control the farmer, by controlling the farmer your control the whole food system and thats the legacy of genetics in farming'In India small farmers using GM seeds are noticing a new problem with pests. The pests (and weeds) develop their own resistence to the GM crops (with built in Roundup). This is giving rise to 'super pests' and is forcing GM using farmers to use ever more powerful pesticides ...... then again, this suit Big M ...... more cash in the bank!
I would suggest that patents granted and intended patents for seeds should have a built in requirement that they (somehow) don't cross contaminate non GM crops! Fair should be fair after all. Let them have their GM seeds / crops but I don't wan't them blowing into my field contaminating my crops!
I would compare this to noise pollution! if I were living beside an event centre they (the management) would NOT be allowed to pollute by resience with loud noise! I think they same law should apply to GM crops ...... then again Big M is working on bees, so maybe they are getting ready for this battle! Bees that only pollinate their GM crops and overfly 'natural' crops! Sounds farfetched, I know, but I would put nothing past them
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Mr Mayor..I read the article you posted @ GMeducation.org
I made notes as I read it.
How many companies would you say isnt a monopoly..10...20...1000?
I thought monopoly meant a single controling principle.
The article starts out calling Monsanto a monopoly in the title...but then says there are 4 major players.
I would prefer honesty in a commentary, especially if I am reading it to learn or form an opinion on the subject.
So the author goes ghetto and refers to the 4 corporations as a CARTEL implying nefarious, illegal business.
DoJ inviestigates, finds no anti trust violations, closes the investigation after 2 years. The antagonists suggest that the DOJ is some how part of the evil empire.
I think the higher prices of seeds...like food..in the time frame mentioned isn't due to some phoney monopoly but rather coincides with fuel cost increases... which affects us all....and in costs that have no link to food or Monsanto.
Then the article goes on to blame monsanto for increases in the suicide rate....
I think perhaps the article, and the entire web page, has a little bias...and like greenpeace must illicit a fear response to get donations so they can save the planet from people like me.
So we come to Percy Schmeiser who lost all the cases in court and still claims to have won...which I find weird.
http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/percy-schmeiser.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser#Judgment
Percy got caught.
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