Is this guy serious?!
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I'm a gun owner, shooter and supporter of the sport. That said, I find many gun owners willfully ignorant and blind supporters of the "arm everyone" mantra. There are a few tired platitudes often used by the gun lobby that I would like to address.
- Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
This argument... Man, where do I even start? I can't say in polite company the things I think about people that use this absurdity as an excuse for widespread gun ownership. Sure, people kill people and have done so since people were people. We kill each other with rocks, sticks, knives, swords, cars, cannons, you name it. But people with guns can kill a lot more people, more rapidly than any other privately owned device. Get it? People with GUNS. You don't wipe out a classroom full of kids, a bunch of staff and your mother in the space of an hour or so, with a ROCK.
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Cars kill more people... Another foolish argument that doesn't compare to guns, a false comparison. Cars aren't designed to kill people. Quite the opposite, actually. Guns, on the other hand, are designed for the single sole purpose of killing. If you want to compare apples to apples, you must compare the rate of intentional homicide with a vehicle to the rate of intentional homicide with a firearm. Unfortunately for the purposes of this debate the rate of intentional vehicular homicide is so low there are no numbers available. The rate of intentional homicide with a firearm are very easily found. This argument also applies to cholesterol, alcohol and pretty much any other item where "X" kills more people than guns. Name the last time cholesterol wiped out a theater full of people in 5 minutes.
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The second amendment says... Yes it does. But let's backtrack in history a little, shall we?
What does a drive by shooting in 1795 sound like?
Clip, clop, clip, clop, clip, clop...
BANG!
Clipclopclipclopclipclopclipclop...
They didn't have 75 round drum mags when this was written. They didn't have Columbine when this was written. They didn't have guns that spewed rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, run out, and replace the magazine in the matter of seconds, when this was written. Also, look at the second amendment very, very closely. It says "AMENDMENT" right there in the title. Our forefathers were smart enough to know that they couldn't see the future and that our Constitution can be changed. That time needs to come sooner rather than later.
- There are enough gun laws... Yes, there are. And they're all wrong. Poked full of holes by a gun lobby. The slate needs to be wiped clean and started fresh. I have zero problem with people owning any kind of gun, I'm even open to full-auto ownership. BUT. Not everyone should be able to do so. Background checks, psych eval, Dr. examinations, should be the standard for gun purchase and become more rigorous with the level of lethality of the weapon sought for purchase. No history of chronic depression or mental issues whatsoever. Also, some standard of securing weapons in the home needs to be made. No loaded guns left in the closet, nightstand, etc. to be stolen or used in a deadly awful game by children. Gun owners should be held legally responsible for the crimes committed with those weapons should they fail to do so. Private sales of weapons should be held to the same standard and conducted through the local law enforcement agency where the gun can be held in "escrow" until the checks are completed.
There's much more I could write, but I can only type so fast on a mobile, I may revisit this later and add more.
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A very thoughtful response. I agree 100%.
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Interesting video, especially for those who think the teachers should have been armed.
PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/v=8QjZY3WiO9s#!
PART 2
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Australia's Port Arthur Massacre occurred in 1996 where 35 people were killed with an automatic weapon. The Government moved fast to ban all automatic weapons by a "buy back scheme" automatic weapons were cut up and sold for scrap. There was bleating from our gun ownership groups. Well it happened anyway. Funny, but the sky did not fall in the the weather remained acceptable, no famine,or military coupe, that was 16 years ago.
"guns don't kill people, people kill people" that 'ism seems to sum up the stupidity of the US gun lobby, redneck wonderland.
"People with guns kill people"
For the record i own a BSA CF2 22/250 and a Beretta SV10 Perennia III
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China Knife Attack: Teen Reportedly Kills 8, Wounds 5 In Northeast
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/china-knife-attack_n_1731760.htmlViolent crimes are growing more common in China. There was a string of knife attacks against schoolchildren across the country in early 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50.
I think Mac1 was refering to these stories rather than the latest attack on 22 children, 1 adult injured in knife attack outside central China primary school 2 days ago.
...maybe
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One could consider reading this to understand one of the base issues we have in the US.
Lack of adequate mental health care is a big part of why we have the tragedies of late, one can point directly to changes that came about during the Reagan administration. At the time, I was working for a police department as state after state dumped their mental health facilities occupants into the street, we went from not having any homeless, disoriented or otherwise individuals on the street to many. We are now paying the real cost of deferring appropriate care for the mentally ill.
My wife and I know of which this woman is speaking, having a child who is outside the norm can be a terrifying experience with little means of getting them the help needed.
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It's interesting that the segment of our society that is pushing for easy access to weapons with minimal restriction is the same segment that seeks to cut services to those that do not have insurance or cannot afford treatment for mental health issues.
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Is THIS guy serious...?!?
@unknownuser said:
I wish to God she had had an M-4 in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids
.
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The truth is that in a chaotic situation, even highly trained police officers often kill bystanders like recent shootings in New York. The idea that some teacher who spent a few hours at the range would suddenly turn into Jason Bourne and take out the killer without doing more harm than good has no basis in reality.
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It's absolutely utopian (~ Superman movie) to assume a teacher (or anyone else) would have direct access to the weapon when it is needed (what if it is at home, or in another room, or you are not at the desk drawer). Would we really want to arm teachers for such a very rare case, at the cost that there are more weapons that can be abused or lost/stolen? (not yet to think about how pubescent teenagers treat their teachers)
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@unknownuser said:
He's entitled to his opinion, obviously, however devoid of commons sense it may be, but the timing!
Let me ask you this. If you could magically transport a man of firmness and virtue into this situation which would you hope he was carrying a book or a gun?
All that is nessasary for evil to prevail is for good men to stand idlely by.
Arm yourself!
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I guess our cohort who suggests that a man of firmness and virtue (I wonder if a woman could possibly be such an individual?) didn't take the time to watch the videos of the college students attempting to do just that and failing miserably. A few of them appeared to be of real firmness and virtue. Even the young lady who acquitted herself remarkably well failed to really have an effect on the situation.
I grew up in a very rural place in northern New England and used to hunt for food. When I was a hunter, the fish and game department rules for semi automatic weapons were that they could not have more then five rounds in the clip (or have a clip that held more than 5 rounds). I never needed more than two. Why anyone would argue they need a twenty/thirty etc round clip for any weapon used for hunting is beyond my understanding. If you can't take it down in under five you need to spend a lot more time at the range.
Sadly in this case no amount of gun control legislation would have solved the problem of keeping this individual from getting a weapon: he had no record of any kind to keep him from successfully getting any weapon he desired. Had he been properly treated for his mental illness he would have been much less likely to have felt the need to perform this heinous act and his mother would have known she had to keep those guns locked up, as all guns should be, away from the mentally infirm. Appropriate treatment would also have generated a record/paper trail that would show up in a proper background check keeping him from easily getting such a weapon.
Ultimately we will try and treat the effect and not the causes of this and all those other tragedies. Gun control is one of the answers, as in not having military grade killing tools all over (AK47 M16 etc related weapons).
Taking proper care of the mentally ill which requires not only a change in the care, but a change in the social attitude about such care, so those who need it will receive it, is a critical action on a national and state level to solve. This is not only a legislative change but a social engineering change so people who are clearly not normal or "right" need to be assisted by their families and the communities they live in, not leaving them to molder in homes or their apartments to descend into a madness the rest of us cannot understand or control.
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Hi folks.
A lot has been written in this thread and some posts are very good.
I dont think I am to add a lot, especially since my native language is not English but here are my views on that subject.
The only important point, IMHO, is CONTROL.
If the possession of weapons is controlled, this will limit their number in circulation and should also limit the number of really dangerous weapons like assault guns, that can kill dozens in a few minutes if not a few seconds.
If someone is determined to kill and want to do it with a powerfull weapon, this person will probably be able to find such a weapon, control or not. But, for the ordinary person that becomes fool enough to kill, limited access would mean that it would take so much time and paper work before this person get the weapon, that it may calm itself and reconsider its idea or, if the person pusues its action and actually get a weapon, it will be a less dangerous one like a hunting riffle or a small 22 caliber or whatever. Yes, even a small 22 riffle can kill but it is less powerfull that an AK47 and the life toll shall be less.
CONTROL = LESS PROBLEM.
There will still be shootings but they will be of smaller amplitude.
To do that, some legislations must be changed. To change these, there must be less lobying from the arms manufacturers. I just hope it doesn't happens but if someone in the arms lobby loose a kid from a shooting, maybe this person will realise that its actions are wrong.
In the meantime, lets hope that the monneymakers that live because other persons die will evolve and becomes real homo sapiens. Right now they are no better than vultures.
Just ideas.
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@ccaponigro said:
@unknownuser said:
He's entitled to his opinion, obviously, however devoid of commons sense it may be, but the timing!
Let me ask you this. If you could magically transport a man of firmness and virtue into this situation which would you hope he was carrying a book or a gun?
All that is nessasary for evil to prevail is for good men to stand idlely by.
Arm yourself!
No.
- The gun would need to be in easy reach at all times.
- To meet requirement #1, the person would need to be seated near, or have on their person, the gun at all times in order to be ready to defend against a threat.
- In a school full of little kids, do you want an easily accessible gun?
The answer is responsible ownership, and owners who are accountable and held responsible. Seeing as many of the most recent shootings have been conducted by people with mental health issues the standard background checks required to purchase a weapon are not sufficient. We also need to look beyond the owner and look at the household; maybe the owner is a model citizen but how about the family members? Do you need guns in a household with a paranoid schizophrenic? A history of chronic depression? Maybe it's fine in most situations, not every person with these problems will be a killer or commit suicide with a gun, but there have been enough cases now where this needs to be on the table.
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just am here to console the US people about what I heard.
Here in Iran school bus or oil fire place kills innocent children too.
each day about 70 people are killed by car accident and yearly about 24000!!! a calm war...
hope one day no weapon kills humankind anymore -
@solo said:
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Service members are not allowed to carry firearms on base, stop spreading ignorance using dead soldiers as an example. That's pretty low even for you.
For the record, I had a friend who was one of the soldiers killed so I take it personally when a liar like you uses this type of low-down-dirty lie to further your agenda. Try doing a little research before you post these types of stupid blurbs, I thought you were smarter that this.
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Ever heard of MP's?
get off your high horse teabagger
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