_1_People Have The Power_1_
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Assambly in Puerta del Sol now, today, 26 May, 22pm
you can follow it live in this link :
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/enlace33
Getting organised by now in districts and villages all over Spain. This movement do not stop. Glad to be joined anywhere world wide
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Juan,
What do these students hope to achieve?
What I mean is, what are they demanding from their government besides not being treated like commodities as you suggested in first post.
Are there jobs available? if not then what can the government do to create them? is it the governments job to create jobs?I see a lot of demonstrations around the world and some have very real and relevant reasons like corrupt dictators that can be solved by the pesky bastard just leaving office, but like in Spain I cannot see an easy answer, so what if there was one thing they could achieve would that be?
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I had the same thought as Solo and I hope the situation doesn't degenerate into violence.
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That is a very interesting question solo. Thanks for asking.
The answer is that they want to achieve the change of the LAW so to avoid the corruption of our Politicians and Bankers. Spain has 5 million people out of job (20%). A lot of them young people.
Because of the international financial crisis, the present Government, Socialists, have low down the civil servant wages a 5%, plus they have stopped the growth of pensions. They gave huge quantity of money to the Banks in need, as Europe ordered, in the hope that the banks will then lend it to the Enterprises in need. The bankers did not. Enterprises went down. People lost their jobs.
With that money the Banks are now buying State Debt at a high rate for them. This is unsustainable. This young people also know that the other party, Populars will not do anything better because they are as well in the hands of Europe´s decision and they do not bother about that.
So they have exploded.
If the **LAW**is changed, the Politicians will be chosen in a total different way as they are now. They will be elected right from the people and not by a guy, president of the Party, who chooses his friends in a list and then people vote that list.
If the LAW is changed Bankers will have very very clear that they are going to be controlled right away.
But it is not a national revolution only. They know that it is EUROPE as a whole who has to make a strong move to stop the overwhelming power of the Banking and Financial System.
It is not the Government job to create jobs. His job must be to preserve the Freedom and Honesty of his citizens. People themselves create the jobs. What is needed is the freedom to do it. And that freedom is now hijacked. And they, we, are now trying to get that freedom back. Changing the System of the things as they are now.
And all is being done by talking, by relations in the streets, in the internet. And with no violence at all. On the contrary, violence is seen as a big handicap for the movement. Until the present day the Government stay calm and let it go because they know that if they try to stop it, they will multiply the unwanted effect.
We will keep Peace in the Country I am sure.
Thanks Marian too.
Cheers -
Basically you are talking about true democracy.
Some other large countries could learn a thing or two from this.
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Juan, While their goals are lofty, how do the demonstrations contribute to their goals. Didn't they help the "right wing" take power, or is that good? Isn't a "60% turn out of the whole country" to vote good? In the US, 60% turn out of registered voters (not even 60% of the whole country (eligible voters)) has not happened since the 60s.
In view of what is happening in Egypt today, I am having second thoughts about the demonstrations that removed Mubarak from office. Not to say that I have any insight into what works. Democracy is the best tool we have today, but it still falls short of achieving the ideals.
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Box, yes it is about true Democracy ,._)))
honoluludesktop,
Demonstrations contribute everything to their goals for if they are successfully repeated they will force the Government to take action on behalf of their proposals. The Government will have to Resign and open the new time for Elections to write the new LAW.
They claimed for the first Demonstration on 15 of May. As the result of the success spontaneusly there were demonstrations during the whole week. Then came the elections and right wing won. It is hard to say if they helped them to win. It was expected in any case because of the bad actions of the left wing in power.
But the goals keep the same after the elections. There have not been yet more demonstrations but they are sure to come soon. Then the revolution will be tested.
I think 60% voting of total census is a low percentage, though here in Spain is the average until now.cheers
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Regarding voter turnout, I noticed when coming to the USA that voter turnout in general was very low in major elections and dismal for local and state elections. I guess the reason is stability, As in America we have a two party system and they are pretty much same in everything except a few social issues that divide them. So voting is no big deal as nothing in your day to day life will change regardless of who gets elected. The youth are disinterested in politics and mainstream media only really has a Sunday morning dedicated to the rhetoric (sure cable is 24/7 politics).
On the other hand in emerging countries and countries with delicate democracies (trying to be PC) a major election can change the country like day and night, so there is invested interest and concerns which is why the turnout is greater as the results do hold real effects and changes for the average person. -
If the demonstrations did not affect the election, how will they force the government to change? What did the demonstration accomplish? In this case, is change by "force" appropriate? If the government resigned, who would write the law?
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HOW I MISSED THIS!?
Nothing in media.
:sunny:Bravo Spain! You are still alive!
How can I help?I was the part of something similar when I was a student. Protests against Milosevic fraud on elections. We were all happy waiting for positive changes. BUT...what happened was that Troyan horse was brought in, some people were bought, some completely new appeared, and in the end Serbia was in the hands of money makers. Now we are knocked down. Media is devils creations. The Truth is never on TV.
...so be careful Spain. Guess you are far advanced today already asking for the crucial. You are fighting the right enemy. -
Just now :
Police attack in Barcelona, see video :
YouTube - Indignats | Desallotjament de la Plaça Catalunya
The main reason for it has been that the Football team Barcelona if winning the Champions in Wembley next saturday they want the square to be opened for their fans. Just incredible and indignant. It is going to be very difficult to stay in calm but lets see coming events. I guess there will be Demonstrations against police´s attack today or tomorrow.solo, you say : ### On the other hand in emerging countries and countries with delicate democracies (trying to be PC) a major election can change the country like day and night,..###
Yes, that is what we expect.honoluludesktop,
as i said in my last post Demonstrations look forward to change the LAW by making the Resign of the Government and by opening at the same time, the present Government, new elections between the actual Parties and the news to be created with the only purpose of discussing and redacting the new Constitution.
The change by force, by popular and non_violent force, is a must when needed, dont you agree ?cheers
update: police has retired. This afternoon is planned to come to the squares all over the Country holding %(#0040BF)[FLOWERS
NOW, THAT IS NICE EH ?]
this is the one and only main link for being informed :
http://madrid.tomalaplaza.net/2011/05/26/acampada-sol-consensua-cuatro-lineas-de-debate/
I quote the recent agreements :ACAMPADA SOL REACHES A CONSENSUS ON FOUR DEBATE AREAS
The General Assembly of Acampada Sol, gathered since eight o’clock of the evening in Puerta del
Sol, on the 25th of May of 2011, has reached a general agreement to carry out a debate regarding
the following four areas:1/ The electoral reform aimed at a more representative democracy and of real proportionality, with
the additional objective of developing effective mechanisms for citizen participation.2/ The fight against corruption via regulations aimed at total political transparency.
3/ The effective separation of public authorities.
4/ The creation of citizen control mechanisms to effectively demand political responsibility.
It consists of four points that have been agreed upon, that will be debated by all the corresponding
work groups and that will be ratified in the General Assembly which will take place next Friday 27th of
May of 2011. -
srx, you say : ### You are fighting the right enemy.###
Yes we believe so.
Thank_you for your comments and good desires
I put links so you can follow and help as well to get it known in your Country. Come on, we are going to get it. This is a common fight for all of us that we are going to win.
Cheers
edit
see below the people Demonstration this afternoon in BARCELONA after the police strike this morning
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I think this clip is going to start something in EUROPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DskfLNJh_C4Solidarity from USA Wisconsin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_jnOXhDF6c&feature=youtu.be -
Hi Juan. Bravo for you people! Still not a word in media here...Dead sea. ..but I am taled everyone
...
I would really like to help more but I'm already in the prison of over working for bare life of my family, not having time for anything else, just like the rest of Serbia.
Wish I was sill student.
By the way, when I try to conect I get this I get this@unknownuser said:
This Connection is Untrusted
You have asked Firefox to connect
securely to n-1.cc, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
. Do you know why? -
Hi**srx**thanks for your support
I guess you are getting difficulties to access it because /n-1.cc/ belongs somehow to : http://lorea.org/index.html.en which is a SOCIAL NETWORKS ON AN EXPERIMENTAL FIELD LAND. But do not worry, that page I gave it is still under construction and mainly in spanish. Soon it will be available in every language and in every Country, I hope.
As for your help now, it is more than enough that you agree with the movement and spread the news, help is mainly in the heart, no ?
thanks again Cheers
hi, watch out
Empire State Rebellion Beginspacificfreepress.com
This domain may be for sale!
(www.pacificfreepress.com)
19th of June :
Madrid :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwPDsmGqXo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o6Oefl0Yso&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albsCH2SiKA&feature=player_embedded
This was in Murcia :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCGlQYYoU3w&feature=player_embedded#at=13
And this in Barcelona subways ,._)) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRvu65Set00&feature=youtu.be
Politicians are not hearing. Movement grows. Walking Marchs towards Madrid from Barcelona, Cadiz, Valencia...up to 21 cities, starts today.
http://marchapopularindignada.wordpress.com/ -
JUNE 13
Yesterday**Puerta del Sol**was voluntarily cleared.
At night :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYlVMV5xEE&feature=player_embedded
Then all marched through :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoRnooWIGnk
Assamblies will keep there in SOL SQUARE
meanwhile all goes on in neighbourhood squares
Next big Demonstration on 19 JUNE _ SPAIN_ EUROPE_______________________________________________________
new relationship web page: https://n-1.cc/
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Bad news for the establishment :
we are**allunited inSpain**
Today have gathered in Madrid about 30 representatives of different cities of the country.
This week_end will work about how to co_ordinate.
we are going to get it.****%(#000040)[we go slowly but it is because it is a long way to go]
join us
cheerslink : http://madrid.tomalaplaza.net/
basic principles of the Real Democracy Now, that is how the movement is called, are three :
1,.) To develop as an Horizontal movement. Leaders are not allowed. There are no leaders.
2,.) The search for collective thinking . Everything is discussed in the Assemblies, Neighbourhood, Local,...National...International ?... and resolutions must be taken by consensus. No-one must fall apart.
3,._) Non ViolenceThis are the tools of the movement so far.
we are improving the second tool.
with a bit of imagination you can see Frank Gehry´s sculptures style is in the camps ,._))) -
28th of June
Hot, hot, hot weather,33, 34, 35... celsius degreesall over Spain. No more Demonstrations now. But the work continues. The net grows. The neighbourhood organises themselves. Today is the debate of the current state of the nation in the Parliament. There will be another debate about it, in the Puerta del Sol, made by the people.
The movement is acting strongly in stopping ejections from their homes of people who can not pay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keECLmhimwE&feature=player_embedded
The political debate continues but still do not reach consensus.
The movement goes under and expands. It is starting to spontaneously propose the survival out off the system. Self organisation. Alternatives of work, of food, dwellings,...
I think the movement is going to develop in that way. No single hand to be given to the system. After all 2.012 is just about to come and for something really NEW to come we have to prepare ourselves with something new as well.
Meanwhile the march towards Madrid goes on, despite of the hot weather.
It is not easy. But the movement does not give up. The movement learns.
This is all for now
cheers -
It is very hard to break this chains...I don't know how.
Well, in Serbia people where hiding from Otoman empire for 500 years living in woods, far from the centers of power, to be free. Then, when first Serbian politician came in 19th century he made towns and made people come in. So, they had to pay taxes. He could rule (I'd say somebody else trough him). It's time again to go to the woods, but global. I think it's the same thing. I thought about it myself, to design and build "a town" for likewise people..but it's hard to break chains in yourself...and to find likewise too...We'll see. -
Your people once did it then, that is a huge advantage, srx, the experience must be then in your genetic code by now.
Lucky you
I agree with your thoughts that this is going to be global.
I am worried about the cities.
I think it will be quite hard to survive there, but it must be possible to get organised somehow and we have to think about it and prepare.
The channels for transportation of food, when oil is no more avalaible, or electricity not working well any more,...
Maybe selecting districts in the cities, close to the avalaible coming of the food,... I do not know.
But it is the time to start moving on that direction of the thoughts.
And not too much time is left.
The good thing now is that we can share our experiences and learnings and that all this is necessary to happen for the new good times to come.
cheers and good luck ¡
not to alarm anyone, but this video makes me think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-vwYJiD8g&feature=player_embedded#at=395
5th of July, people win police, ,:)))
update 16th of July
People keep working in their neighbourhoods. Politicians have just changed the law in one day about ejections of homes. Not as expected but they raised the money that the Bank can not touch in a working family. They are too proposing ways to change the way that they are elected. The movement has created consciousness of change. Things go slowly and silently but I think no one doubts that it will demonstrate when needed. Things are bad. Greece will probably leave the Euro zone. Europe will not be the same. Spain is constantly in danger. The good thing about this movement is that people are getting to know each other´s needs and think about how to help and what it is needed to be done. Something good has to come out of it. Maybe a new Reinassance
or maybe not.Time will tell.
cheers
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