Programming in C, C++ for Mac and Windows?

MartinRinehart

... if you go for something modern and simple like C#, ...

Simple? Nothing about .NET is simple. C# is an argument for bariatric language surgery.

When MSFT created Windows, it deliberately pessimized the programming interface. You could tell when you tried to use it that a) the people in Redmond were idiots (you knew this was not the case), or b) the people in Redmond wanted to make it as hard as possible to create Windows programs. (Subsequent MSFT documents, dug out at trial, confirmed that the answer was b).)

MSFT did not change with .NET. It is simply a way to get anyone who uses it locked into a Windows-only future. Use C# if you want a language more bloated than Ada and you want your code to never run on a Mac and ...

Oh dear. Gotta do something to lower my heart rate.

toxicvoxel

@unknownuser said:

and you want your code to never run on a Mac and ...

An good example of a half-researched comment. Ever heard of the Mono Project? http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

@unknownuser said:

If you want to do simple things go with "simple" languages but after running the simple examples you will have problems that need knowledge of the things that run under the hood.

TBD, that comment reminds me of the silly remarks you made a while back on the old @Last forum relating to the Gelato rendering system until the NVIDIA development team put you in your place. These languages have been used on projects of far greater complexity than anything you will ever code in C.

If you like C/C++ then fine, but don't mislead the youngsters who are contemplating first steps into choosing a programming language. I have personally used .NET for more than 10 years on a range of design automation projects, some for one of the largest engineering firms in the world, and I do not recognise any of the characteristics either of you assign to these languages in your posts.

AdamB

I realise this is all set for a flame war..

The thread is about producing Extensions for Ruby (which is written in C). So TBD comment about keeping it simple and using C/C++ is pretty reasonable.

Its all well saying Mono, but the reality is that on a Mac, Xcode has great support for C/C++ and not Mono/C#.

tbd

toxic: create a simple .NET ruby extension example that works inside Sketchup or quit babbling around

tbd

a ruby extension - create a new ruby class with one simple method in .NET. compile, copy .so in SU Plugins and ready to use in .rb code

toxicvoxel

TBD, How is this relevant in the context of the thread and specifically my post, - unless you wish to narrow the scope of the discussion in order to make your point?

I can remember an AutoCAD guy in the office way back in SU V3 insisting that I show him how I was going to do a boolean intersection with SU. Like him you are missing the point and like him I don't think you will ever get the point.

Chris Fullmer

Sorry to get everyone so riled up around here. Lets not be bashful, dig out those old skeletons from the cloest.....oh wait, we already are!

The point of this thread is in fact SU based, and about how to write extensions for SU ruby. Or how to interface into SU from another program, or dll, etc. I really am not sure what my question is because I just don't know what is possible, and I don't have a specific task in mind that I am striving to find a solution for (yet!). I just want to broaden my horizons and I want to do it with a compiled language.

But I will say that I have installed a few compilers and such and I am reading up on C++ currently. But it gives a bit of background into C, C# and Java. Hopefully I'll be able to wrap my head around it.

Chris

toxicvoxel

@adamb said:

The thread is about producing Extensions for Ruby (which is written in C).
Really? I thought the opening line of the starter post was related to interfacing SU with external .dll's - which can be written with a variety of languages. Seen within that broader premise I think the comments would be misleading to novices looking for an unbiased opinion about selecting a language.

@unknownuser said:

It's all well saying Mono, but the reality is that on a Mac, Xcode has great support for C/C++ and not Mono/C#.

You may notice that my response was in context with the statement that .NET code cannot run cross platform, so I am at a loss to understand the logic of your point. Does XCode run on Windows platforms yet?, - I didn't know, nor does it matter as my design workflow is Windows based.

TBD, not sure what you want to know.- I have written a number of external .dlls that I interface with from Sketchup as part of my daily workflow, so I can assure you that it is possible, if you are suggesting that it can't be done.

toxicvoxel

@unknownuser said:

and I am reading up on C++ currently.. But it gives a bit of background into C, C# and Java

That may take some time...
.

toxicvoxel

A positive idea that can be spun off from this thread would be to create a 'Ruby extendibily' subsection where developers could post sample 'How To..' code for linking SU to external applications, libraries, databases & web-services etc., through native extensions, Win32API, WIN32OLE, file IO, SOAP, and custom bridges etc. For example : Linking SU to Excel, SQL databases, XML, text files, connecting to a web services, linking to CAD. etc
Starter code for interaction of SU Ruby with external libraries created with the plethora of languages in use could be posted over time by coders proficient in those languages. Such a code repository would be invaluable to existing developers proficient in other languages who wish to use Ruby to glue Sketchup to existing code and applications. This could also serve as a catalyst for seeing more plugins and extensions becoming available over time.
[- And for novices the sample code could help to inform a choice for selection of a supporting coding language.)

Chris Fullmer

I think that is a neat idea. If I ever make something usef-able I will post it. It looks to be a long ways off at the rate I am moving, but all things are possible.

Chris

toxicvoxel

A summary of this topic should go onto that list for example:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=25233

thomthom

I am extremely green to C/C++.
Currently doing some very basic tests in C++ with VS2010.

There is some number crunching that I'd like to do in C++. I did some comparisons and the Ruby version was 100 slower than the C++ version. So I am very interested in finding a way where I can create a set of number crushing methods in C++ which I can call from SU Ruby.

What I am looking at at the moment is:

Sending two arrays of 3D co-ordinates to the C++ method (3D points can be simple array of three floats)
Have the C++ method do its thing
return a new array back to ruby

Does it simplify much if the C++ never have to access any SU objects? Is it then possible to create a Windows and OSX solution? Would it be a DLL on Windows and ... what does OSX use...?

The SUExt link in TDB's post (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=25201#p216233) leads to a wiki page...

tbd

see remus response
PellesC is my favourite - small, fast, free, doesn't install in all your machine, comes with all tools needed. it is C99 compliant

I went via VStudio only when I complied some SU SDK programs - too many VS dependent crap to convert it to another compiler

you need a compiler that creates Mac binaries and PellesC is not one of them
but on Mac you have IDE, compiler, debugging tools, Ruby by default so get one.

my suggestion:

get a Mac - you can install Windows in bootcamp or virtualized if you want it
start with C, it is easier to debug ruby libraries problems (there are a lot, see Adam's comments)
compile my SUExt example and play with it for start

tbd

link updated in my original post to http://github.com/TBD/OpenSUP/tree/master/SUExt/

thomthom

@unknownuser said:

link updated in my original post to http://github.com/TBD/OpenSUP/tree/master/SUExt/

cheers.
Can one download from one branch? I only managed to find a download for the whole lot. (not that it was a big download - just curious)
Also - is that extension one that integrates with SU such that you can access SU objects from C?

tbd

@thomthom said:

Can one download from one branch? I only managed to find a download for the whole lot. (not that it was a big download - just curious)

nope. only if I create the .zip myself and add them to Downloads tabs.

@thomthom said:

is that extension one that integrates with SU such that you can access SU objects from C?

is that extension that only extends Ruby with C code (so the title is a bit misleading for now). you can access SU objects via normal Ruby commands (rb_ functions)

thomthom

Would the code be simpler if it didn't integrate Ruby?
If it only passed data back and forth? Or is it required to integrate in order to share the various data types?

tbd

@thomthom said:

Would the code be simpler if it didn't integrate Ruby?

you dont integrate Ruby, just the needed headers for Ruby types. as you can see the output .so is small, 10kb, without any size optimizations.

@thomthom said:

If it only passed data back and forth? Or is it required to integrate in order to share the various data types?

you only pass data back and forth.

thomthom

And what about Classes defined by SketchUp? How does one handle them?