Take a look and answer one question
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So essentially for you this people is talking about a ficticius conspiracy, they are utopists and the solutions they are promoting are ridiculous, without any sense, isn't it?
I'm sure yours is one of the common responses one can adopt to this question. Let's wait for another point of view then.
Thanks
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Not quite, but everything is explained away too easily. Facts mixed with things that could never be verified.(Thats the way conspiracy theories work)
Is there extreme power lying with those that control corporations, the monetary system, the Church. absolutely. Does globalization hurt the poorest, I can't argue with that.
But Hugo Chavez hasn't had that nasty plane crash yet even though Venezuela has the 7th largest oil reserves in the world, and I noticed that the word China was never mentioned.
As for the utopia, I have to wonder who will build the machines that make all the machines, they seem to think that "technicians" will do this just out of love.
I must say I appreciate your posting though, because there could never be enough discussion on some of the topics raised, and I have had a couple of great discussions about it already.
And I do hope that others will join in. -
I agree with you in many things but I want to mantain an eclectic discussion here. It's very difficult to argue with intelligence when you use another language. They speak about China when they say that there is not difference between capitalism and communism talking about money, the difference is the degree of intervention of the state in the economy.
Hugo Chavez (who I can ensure you is not welcomed here in Spain for nobody) have several assassination attempts per year, not as much as Castro for example but enough.
Are you american? Ah, canadian
A common issue we would find is this. I'm remembering one post here in funny pics section, with a world map representing the view of America about the rest of the world. Is not easy to explain to you (american people) the vision we have of you.
Let's put an example. You are now the first economy in the world even when you became to get some troubles. We (Spain) were the greatest empire in the human history with a strong economy and militar power too. Do you think is it possible without exterior interventionism? I would say no. I'm talking about discovering, conquer, expansion and winning some wars. When we talk about transnational companies we talk about the same. They say that it doesn't really matter if this companies are american, european, etc. We all are "suffering" it´s methods. You can't afford for a house and an american car in a good suburb like your parents did. The same here, with my father salary we were 6 sons, my mother and my grandmother living much better than today with a better qualified job to me. The same with most of the people around me.
I know you are about 300 million and you have all kind of people there but you have some fame of ignorants in general culture and humanistics, with an extremely introspective way of conceiving the world (this is the vision only). Some of my worst colleagues of school, some years ago, went to Miami to take their studies degree because it was much more easy there (and now). Of course you have fame to be very prominent in other questions, like technicians for instance. We were not surprised when the Kennedy Foundation puts the attention of near by 50 million of americans who didn't read or write during the Atlanta Olympic Games.
When we watch the news that came from you is easy to distinguish the schizophrenic psychopathology your country has about the rest. I'm sure that many people there ever could'nt imagine that someone hate you through the point of destroy 2 symbols of the economic imperialism like the 2 towers. I don't know if it was a conspiracy or not, you are right, it's very difficult to probe. It was the same here with the supposed Al Qaeda Spain Train Bombing in Madrid although you can find many links with the spanish police, the socialist party, etc., that finally forced the government change in the next elections and actually is silenced by the socialists.
It happened before in the American-Spanish war, after the Monroe doctrine, when the USS Main is sunked in La Havana for the own americans to start the war with Spain. Something similar with the Lusitania which finally was probed to transport ammunition and was employed to entry in the First World War. Again with Pearl Harbor in the World War II, all we know the japanesse plans were known by Roosevelt. And so on...
Yes, americans are not saints.
Anyway our cultures are influenced by yours. I love all your old Hollywood productions (hate most of the new ones). Our children loves Disney and we love penthouse centerfolds, apple, google, NASA, etc.
Now I'm 43 years old so I don't believe in utopia and the dream of capitalism for me is an utopia like many others. I'm not communist, I'm not "-ist" but I want to believe in people like John Lennon. Is it possible to be human in this society? Is it possible a better world? Are you sure this model can continue? Think in your sons or future sons.
Yes, when I finished to watch the film I said to my girlfriend: Well, don't believe all they said but don't discard all. Don't think technicians alone will do it or people will be liberated of work. But many things they said are completely true. What will you do? That's the question.
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For someone who is not interested in hard discussion, you have a lot to say:-) Most people do not take responsibility for their thoughts, and do little in reality outside of their sphere of influence. They do nothing outside their nominal reach to change their lives, the future, and the world.
Should they?
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@coronel said:
Yes, when I finished to watch the film I said to my girlfriend: Well, don't believe all they said but don't discard all. Don't think technicians alone will do it or people will be liberated of work. But many things they said are completely true. What will you do? That's the question.
Yes that is the question.
I will continue doing things on a local (sphere of influence level) including:
Volunteering at the community level,as I have done for many years, including hospital boards,coaching,community planning,historical restoration, working with the aboriginal community and their specialized projects, continue to work on the community we are designing that inclusive in every sense of the word.
I will continue to design off the grid houses, we are on our 26th one right now.
I will live in my passive solar house, which has only rainwater collection as a water source and is built for a conserver.
I will continue to raise 70% of my food.
I will buy local.
I will walk when I can.
I will not support those whose contribution I think has negative impacts.
I will continue with my belief that money is not everything.
And I will speak out as I have since the 60's when I realized the importance of such.Oh and by the way Coronel, your English is excellent.
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@honoluludesktop said:
For someone who is not interested in hard discussion, you have a lot to say:-) Most people do not take responsibility for their thoughts, and do little in reality outside of their sphere of influence. They do nothing outside their nominal reach to change their lives, the future, and the world.
Should they?
Your sphere of influence is not as small as you could think. You are at my antipodes but I'm influencing you now. You can hate me and reaffirm your opinions after reading mines or you could find something that never before was important to you so I could change your opinion. But I see this is not the problem with you. It seems it doesn't matter to you or you feel your are not important enough for this world. What can I do... nothing? What if a neighbourhood keep his garbage on your garden... Oh yes.. you have the police, they will act for me. But what when the police keep their garbage on your garden?
So now I have two examples.
- One that believes that may be something is going wrong but the alternative is impossible, utopic.
- One that feel that is not his responsibility when in fact there are a lot of people who take your responsibility in your name without problem. Your mayor, the governer, the president, your generals... people like you, individuals.
Edit: We have another now:
- Modelhead, the joker hahahaha
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So what are you going to do? Speak out on forums?
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@dale said:
Oh and by the way Coronel, your English is excellent.
I don't think so but thank you very much, I learned it mostly from my own...
And you make me happy when I see you control your reins doing something, now is time to explore how much we can expand our espheres
I think the first step is to change the education.
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@dale said:
So what are you going to do? Speak out on forums?
No, I will try to support all those initiatives tending to make a better world. Spain will be the first occidental country to give the 1.7 of the IBP for exterior helping. We are the first country in organ donation. We have one of the best health systems in the world. We are a paradise for tourists and we love the rest of the world. We are one of the first countries in renewable energy and will grow much more. We are closing all our nuclear centrals. We just send militars to reconstruct basic communications after your invasions
. We respect fishing quotes and I will make pressure to extend all this things, to reclaim better education, better technicians (we are very imaginative). I will try to buy local like you to help families to maintain their small business. I will try to be your friend. I will respect nature. I will try to educate my sons to do all of this much better than me. I will try to be accepted for my own, not for the car I drive. I will try to love other countries the same I love mine. And I will take a cup of coffee now with your permission. -
Your a good man Colonel. (Fair trade coffee I hope)
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Edit: We have another now:
- Modelhead, the joker hahahaha
We have room for you to Coronel!
Don't discard it. Do you have any good looking sister or friend? We will need something to start from when demons finish the work
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It's worth the watch, although it is 2 hrs long. But the explanation about fractional reserve banking system is well done.
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@dale said:
Your a good man Colonel. (Fair trade coffee I hope)
hahahaha. I drink coffee from a friend family here in the same city. They import the same coffee from the same South America people for several generations now and they didn't have any problem with this people.
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@unknownuser said:
Ah, this is one of those conspiracy theory movies again...
It was the same thought I had at the beginning. Ok, forgive all about conspiracy, center your mind in the system itself, can it survive? will all the people, not only the first world, get a better life?
Do you really think we will have the same conditions we have now? Do you think you can start a war for resources against the rest of the world and win it? You seam to be a good boy, will you shoot me? Yes, you will, but you don't want to do it. You still think that the global warming or pandemics will be after you die...You are in Netherlands, actually you are having problems with sea level rising.
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Coronel, You presume that I am speaking for myself? Perhaps, perhaps not, but "Should they?".
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Could we “participate in some real actions to make possible a new world”?!
Coronel,
Our hearts are deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand them...?
The spirit is willing to do good, but the flesh is very weak!
So we find it to be a law that when we want to do right, evil lies close at hand!Practically, without God, we can do nothing! We have to accept to be a ‘born again’ person, to be able to change ourselves and the world!
Cornel
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@unknownuser said:
Could we “participate in some real actions to make possible a new world”?!
Coronel,
Our hearts are deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand them...?
The spirit is willing to do good, but the flesh is very weak!
So we find it to be a law that when we want to do right, evil lies close at hand!Practically, without God, we can do nothing! We have to accept to be a ‘born again’ person, to be able to change ourselves and the world!
Cornel
Somehow I get the feeling that you didn't watch the documentary.
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@unknownuser said:
@coronel said:
You are in Netherlands, actually you are having problems with sea level rising.
That's why we built dikes.
Again, this is all just conspiracy theories I say.
Oh and.. you might want to check out some other posts of me in this particular part of the forum.
It's very frustrating to me to realize the low level of information many people have about the real world.
You may think I'm a 60's hippie or something like that. Why don't you look around the official information agencies and international organizations statistics to compare the real state of the world now and 50 years ago?http://www.greendaily.com/2008/09/04/the-netherlands-readies-for-rising-sea-levels/
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/090703/the-dutch-plan-rising-seas"Again, this is all just conspiracy theories I say?"
Many people in your own country said exactly the same before Hitler invasion of Netherlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Netherlands (Read Background)You can find here another conspiracy theory, this time from "the liberian people conspirating against Firestone".
If you want to save Firestone visit this page:
http://www.stopfirestone.orgAnd there are a lot more companies in trouble now who needs our help.
I see a man in this documentary of 92 years who probably is close to finish his life and is trying with more or less reason to send us a message that I want to interpret of optimism in future, in human race, in our possibilities of surviving working in group.
Don't you feel there is something wrong when you read about millions who die because our excesses?
Do you have children? Try to imagine you work for Philips in Nairobi with your family and your daughter becomes sick for insane water and dies as 14.000 of african children dies every single day. -
Sorry, it's not my intention to bother. It must be the mediterranean temperament you know...
I don't believe any computer could ever get irrational sentiments as be have. I'm more realistic, I think our generation can make many gradual changes to this system. I'm thinking in the enormous potential of the human intelligence when is well applied.
I can't believe our life must be conditioned to pay our home mortgage, etc.
Will visit your links, thanks.
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