Google - Good corporate citizen ?
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That's a good point Ross. My own feeling at first but I'm surprised that Google doesn't do better with their exits. There is much talk about their hiring practice and great working conditions. They need to be as gracious at the back door.
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I would tend to agree with Ross, disgruntled people are not usually the most reliable source of information on their former employer.
That being said, this subject is a perfect segue to a subject that has been really bothering me of late.I must be really dense or something, because I have seen so many tirades on this forum with very anti-American sentiment from European members ( Remember I am Canadian and do not take these things personally) and have just taken it as nationalistic fervor and partiality. I have always generally accepted that the US was founded on very noble principles and that those principles are generally entrenched in the workings of government and commerce. I believed the movies I've seen. As compared to the unscrupulous despots that lead so many unfortuneate countries in the greater world, I was sure that there were generally enough checks and balances in place in the US that free and democratic elections and the press ensure that for the most part, things work better in the US than elsewhere ( Canada excepted. We do a pretty good job here)
So I always thought it was an exception that in places like Miami Beach, where my parents spend winter in a condominum, there is such a high level of bribery and under the table dealings. I thought that perhaps the preponderance of individuals who come from third world countries where bribery and pay offs are a necessary way of life was the reason for this in Miami. For instance, the condo association presidents hire contractors who are friends and provide kick backs. Th4e president lines his pocket, the unit owners have extra assessments and the work is done shoddily and needs to be done again under the next president with similar results. The City building inspectors need to be paid off to pass inspections, the concierge gets a kick back for calling his taxi driver friends for a choice fare and the cost is added to the customer. And on an on and on. The national health system in the US is an entrenchment of this sort of thing, in my opinion. So when I described this to a US friedn of mine, he said "Susan, you are describing the American way. This is not isolated to Miami. This goes all the way up to the highest levels of government. Every so often someone blows a whistle and everyone feigns righteous indignation, some sacrificial lamb is punished and the real bad guys go on doing it all over again.
I suddenly realized that he was right. Americans cluck over other governments with unscrupulous regimes, but how much better has the US been really. What happend to what I thought was the American way? Did it move to Canada?
Not that things are perfect in Canada, mind you. Are humans really so devoid of integrity and basic human decency that it is impossible to have a system where the greater good is supreme? I was ruminating that one's primary duty to do the best for ones' family is often at odds with the "greater good". Conversely, those who are the most involved in "saving the world" are rarely good parents; dedicating their time and efforts to the world's needs rather than the needs of their children.How can you be good for the world, while still looking out for yourself and your kds. And if you do find some sort of balance, won't all those others who are still only looking out for number one walk all over you?
I think I must be depressed. Everyone looks really bad from here, right now.
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Have heart Sorgesu, those feelings are not exclusive and I am guessing you are at that stage in life when it becomes almost second nature to be cynical. I find myself fighting the urge to see so deeply into things. It is not a pretty picture. I think (hope) we have just evolved to another place where our own money, fame, success are less important. The family is the thing if we are lucky enough to have one. In my opinion it is the reason we are here. The greatest joy for me would be to forget the world altogether and spend all my time nurturing/loving that family well into a ripe old age. I think the world can be saved, one family at a time.
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I just don't see a point in spending very much effort on it. "Unhappy, ex-googlers" implies the ex-googlers could have an agenda of their own as disgruntled employees. I will ignore it until/if anything comes of it; then you can say "I told you so."
Even if Google is bad, it won't change my behavior. I probably use many products on a daily basis by "evil" corporations. I'm not so sure I afford to be righteous at the moment. Does that make me a bad person?
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Required reading...
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Jim, why would you be a "bad" person if you personally are not doing something unscrupulous or unconscionable?
I suppose I personally could be a "better" person if I opted to boycott products that were not essential to my daily life if those products were known to be brought to market through some unfair practice. I guess I should really be careful about which grapes I am buying. I suppose I really shouldn't eat milk-fed veal. But then, I might as well not eat chicken either because bulk chicken farms are so very cruel. In fact, where would I stop? So I wouldn't consider myself "bad" because I am forced to slog through life by accepting the products on the market before thoroughly researching each and every one, and making a decision as to the degree of necessity etc etc before I decide to buy.
The point is, we should all really be in a position to be comfortable that the products that we buy are brought to us, for the most part, by companies that maintain fair and honest business practices: and we don't have that comfort. We can't each be a watchdog, but by golly, we shouldn't need to be. -
@sorgesu said:
I suppose I personally could be a "better" person if I opted to boycott products that were not essential to my daily life if those products were known to be brought to market through some unfair practice. I guess I should really be careful about which grapes I am buying. I suppose I really shouldn't eat milk-fed veal...
Yes you could... and no you shouldn't.
As the saying goes_'if you're not part of the solution - you are part of the problem'.
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http://www.goveg.com/factoryfarming_chickens.asp
So do you eat chicken?
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@unknownuser said:
It seems that the share holders are far more important than the employees at Google
unfortunately thats corporate America/world. It really sucks when you work for one of these companies because as employee's i think we want to believe in our company, our product, otherwise our little world doesn't make sense.
I feel that the stockmarket is the bane of existence, and the root of evil, millionaires demanding profits for nothing more than sprinkling a few crumbs around. making nothing ,doing nothing, causing general corruption in business, nameless faces gods that any company is willing to do evil for... "sorry we had no control over laying you off, the shareholders". "sorry we made cut back on the quality of our product, the shareholders". "sorry you can't afford to put gas in your car, the shareholders"......
I can understand a company needing investors to get started, but i don't understand why a multi-million/billion dollar company doesn't buy all their shares, or at least as many as they can get, back. put a clause in the agreement "if your shares reach $? the company has the option to
buy them back. just a thought.The one thing i know for sure is that there need to be certain things that are OFF limits to the stock market, anything involving food, housing ,"essentials" ; why should mr.millionare decide i'm not paying enough for my beef or that there are bigger profits using grai to make biofuel and i should pay $10 for a loaf of bread if i want to compete????????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG !
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I think the point is, you say "where do you stop?", but if we as consumers didn't stop but insisted, people that want to sell us stuff would soon evolve.
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@linea said:
I think the point is, you say "where do you stop?", but if we as consumers didn't stop but insisted, people that want to sell us stuff would soon evolve.
THat will never happen since we are groomed from the time we can talk to be good consumers. advertising, branding........ big corporations have convinced people that they care????????
its insane. 
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@sorgesu said:
http://www.goveg.com/factoryfarming_chickens.asp
So do you eat chicken?
I was just agreeing with your 'being a better person' supposition. And NO I don't eat chicken.
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I think it was Robert Reich who remarked on how we need to get real on this. Corporations are not people; they are formed to make money for a loose array of people, but we should treat corporations as entities that need strict regulation and have NO rights, beyond the laws of commerce. We shouldn't expect them to act like humans, nor give them the same freedoms.
(That goes for robots too, Googlebot.)
Susan, will you deny that it is human nature to cheat(among other things), and propose that Americans have a corner on the market? Perhaps it is wealth that creates greed and not the other way around. Anyway, I guess you are hanging with the wrong crowd.
to go further OT: Among nations this other sort of thing gives me shame, which extends to Mother England.: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7903516.stm
@unknownuser said:
It said the framework of international law that existed before the 9/11 attacks was robust and effective, but had been actively undermined by the US and the UK.
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@pbacot said:
I think it was Robert Reich who remarked on how we need to get real on this. Corporations are not people; they are formed to make money for a loose array of people, but we should treat corporations as entities that need strict regulation and have NO rights, beyond the laws of commerce. We shouldn't expect them to act like humans, nor give them the same freedoms.
(That goes for robots too, Googlebot.)
There you go.
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DE
SketchUcation should give out a Best (ongoing) Avatar award. And you should get it for your tireless efforts.
P.S. I like the second cover you post, of the history comics. El Cid driving out the Moors. How ironical in Europe's "struggle for civilization". That alone put "civilization" back a couple centuries, I guess.
P
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@pbacot said:
DE
SketchUcation should give out a Best (ongoing) Avatar award. And you should get it for your tireless efforts.
P.S. I like the second cover you post, of the history comics. El Cid driving out the Moors. How ironical in Europe's "struggle for civilization". That alone put "civilization" back a couple centuries, I guess.
P
Thanks...
I wonder what today's cover would be? -
xrok1 said:
@unknownuser said:
That will never happen since we are groomed from the time we can talk to be good consumers. advertising, branding........ big corporations have convinced people that they care???????? its insane.
What a depressing, futile picture of society you paint. I don't feel or live the same way, if I did I may as well accept that we will always live in a corrupt "corpocracy" and stop voting. In your perception I must be a terrible consumer. I must have failed the training and be a real embarrassment to the advertisers. I'm really pleased about that.
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linea, you should be proud that your eyes are open, so am i. you should also be sad that society as a whole is blind to it. if you watch 'religulous' the mike myers movie, its the same way with a lot of important issues.
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No I think more and more people are speaking up now, you've got to stand by your convictions.
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@unknownuser said:
No I think more and more people are speaking up now, you've got to stand by your convictions.
Those of us who feel safe enough to speak about these things have been talking long enough. It is time we took steps.
I walk to work every day. Rain or snow. It is about 3k to my office. I walk through a mostly residential area until I reach the core of the city. I feel lucky that I can walk. In the past two years I've been watching the morning comuters stream by me into the downtown area in their cars. Not a single person walks to work. In the summer I ride my bike. Not a single bike passes.
There is much talk about the carbon count but I don't listen any more. The talk is idle. No one takes action.
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