Render package options?
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Hi Guys
Apologise if this is posted in the wrong section but I thought asking people who use different packages and regularly produce high quality photorealistic renders would be the best to ask for a bit of advice!
People within my company use SketchUp on a daily basis (each users level of skill varies greatly from person to person but there are plans to get everyone who currently uses SketchUp on an even playing field.) for creating small to mid-size apartment developments (costing up to £1 million a development I would estimate), to submit to planning departments. Currently any photorealistic renders that need to be created are outsourced to a 3rd party but we are looking to perhaps move this process in-house to one or two individuals (due to a cost cutting exercise).
Could anyone recommend any render plug-ins or stand alone software that can achieve a quality presentation which is relatively easy to pick up and use? (I’m sure this does not apply to most render programs) I have had very limited experience in render packages over the last few years (namely VRay, Raylectron, Kerkythea and Podium, all of which have never lasted more than the 30-day trial!) and I am aware a user cannot install, play with for an afternoon and produce a render by the end of the day and that there is a steep learning curve and alot of practise before something of the kind of quality I see in this gallery is produced.
Currently, exteriors are only needed to be rendered and there is no need for night time images. The use of Photoshop is possible to enhance images but time is a huge factor here. A good support base would be ideal for the user to view different techniques, methods e.t.c.
So, if anyone has any comments, suggestions, references or just to point me in a direction. I would love to hear them!
Thanks for reading!
Steve -
If you want ease of use, I'd go for Podium V2, and get a subscription to the paid section of their components and materials browser. If you're willing to upload a typical model of yours, I'd be glad to render it with Podium, using stuff from the browser. Thea would be another way to go. Not nearly as easy to use as Podium, but not rocket science either. They offer high quality free materials and trees and such. Thea comes with a studio app, which allows for adding high poly models (like said trees) that SU simply cannot handle. Whichever way you go, do try before you buy.
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It depends if you want to keep within sketchup or export/file link into another render application. For example VRay for sketchup works within sketchup which means updating models and such is quite easy, however sketchup does struggle with heavy geometry such as high resolution trees and cars.
The alternative would be to export to something such as Thea render for example. This has a standalone "studio" application that works outside of Sketchup, which in turn will be able to handle far more complex scenes.
If your budget is large enough however, I'd go for 3ds max and VRay. I build all of my building models in Sketchup and take them into max for rendering - and there are a huge number of advantages in doing so, such as the number of free models available for max, the modelling tools within it and the number of tutorials/support groups for it. This however is by far the most expensive option, plus there would be a steep learning curve for users; but it's worth considering in the long term.
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TomDC
Thankyou for your response!
I've attached a basic model of a building (nothing else) that hopefully you can demonstrate what podium can do.
I didn't create this model personally so apologise if it's a bit crude in its construction.Any images would be greatly appreciated!
Steve
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@macker said:
It depends if you want to keep within sketchup or export/file link into another render application. For example VRay for sketchup works within sketchup which means updating models and such is quite easy, however sketchup does struggle with heavy geometry such as high resolution trees and cars.
The alternative would be to export to something such as Thea render for example. This has a standalone "studio" application that works outside of Sketchup, which in turn will be able to handle far more complex scenes.
If your budget is large enough however, I'd go for 3ds max and VRay. I build all of my building models in Sketchup and take them into max for rendering - and there are a huge number of advantages in doing so, such as the number of free models available for max, the modelling tools within it and the number of tutorials/support groups for it. This however is by far the most expensive option, plus there would be a steep learning curve for users; but it's worth considering in the long term.
Macker
Thankyou for youir input.
I think 3ds Max is a out of the budget range and the training to produce something of quality would be too extensive.I think prehaps keeping everything inside SketchUp would possibly be the favoured route. The scenes required would not be too complex and I think the workflow would benefit alot more.
Vray is something I would love to use personally as some of the work I've seen here is fantastic.
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i personally would recommend maxwell. there is the standalone plugin for sketchup which is easy to use and with 75 $ quiet affordable and when you reached thd point where you need something more powerfull you can update to the full rendersuite. i myself for example took the special offer for standalone plugin customers to update to the full suite for half the price. now this offer is outdated but i guess that wasn't the last time they did something like this.
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Thankyou Carloh
Another one for me to look into!
I suppose I should of asked about hardware also. What kind of RAM, graphics card, processor e.t.c would people reccomend that would perform renders comfortably?
Thanks -
I'd go for a minimum of 8GB ram, which should provide a stable and relatively futureproof platform on which to work. Processor I suppose depends on whether or not you're overclocking - but when it comes to rendering, it's all about brute force number crunching so the more powerful, the better.
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I would seriously suggest Thea render especially with the new Thea4SU about to be released you get a studio based renderer and a fully integrated version which is as easy to use as Podium yet has many more options, can run biased and unbiased as well as *GPU, has a robust material editor, supports animation, will support proxy's so even though you work in SU Thea studio will carry the brunt of heavy polygons in the background. Then there is the price, by far the best value for money based on what you get.
Here is a recent render setup to show how easy it is: http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=48940&hilit=barn
*GPU engine still in beta at moment.
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Maxwell Render could be a really nice fit for your needs -- it handles exterior shots excellently and setup time is minimal. You can opt to work inside Sketchup exclusively if you like (via the Standalone plugin), however I would recommend you go with the full Render Suite... the reason being the plugin is the same in the sense you can work exclusively within Sketchup still, but if you determine you need more power you can always go outside SketchUp to do what you need.
There are plenty of tutorials starting with these: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC6E0E0B6921A94E5
I have also made a huge library of free ready-made Sketchup materials that auto-convert to Maxwell materials at rendertime, including the entire line of Arroway textures (you need to own the textures for these to work).
Best,
Jason. -
Not great renders by any stretch of the imagination -didn't have the time. If I were to spend a few hours on these, I'm sure I could make them look rather good.
Vray was mentioned. Decent option, I'd say -though you wouldn't be able to add high poly trees, as you can in either Maxwell or Thea. Its speed/quality ratio is impressive, though. Of course, the learning curve is fairly steep. Lynda.com has a tutorial for VfSU.
Edit: I agree with Solo on Thea, btw. Great value for its price.
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@unknownuser said:
Not great renders by any stretch of the imagination -didn't have the time. If I were to spend a few hours on these, I'm sure I could make them look rather good.
Vray was mentioned. Decent option, I'd say -though you wouldn't be able to add high poly trees, as you can in either Maxwell or Thea. Its speed/quality ratio is impressive, though. Of course, the learning curve is fairly steep. Lynda.com has a tutorial for VfSU.
Edit: I agree with Solo on Thea, btw. Great value for its price.
TomDC
Thankyou for taking the time to do that! Much appreciated.
Thankyou to everyone for their input. Lots of research to complete and even more learning!
Anymore suggestions / comments are welcome.
Steve -
You have also the new Octane Render who can interest you but NVidia Graphic card needing!
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@solo said:
Then there is the price, by far the best value for money based on what you get.
I think this can be a bit misleading -- it is a good value, but if you take Maxwell for comparison you can see that Thea is not the best value. The full Render Suite of Maxwell comes with all plugins for free (and offers many that Thea does not like Photoshop, Nuke, and After Effects... 17 in all) -- it also offers 5 free render nodes.
If you add up all the price of all plugins Thea offers, and the render node difference, Thea comes out to be more expensive -- and you could easily make the argument that you get less for your money (depending on your needs).
Each engine has it's strengths and weaknesses (which can be listed on and on) but "value" is definitely in the eye of the beholder, and depends entirely on your needs.
Best,
Jason. -
@toynlet said:
Anymore suggestions / comments are welcome.
Don't buy hastily. Try extensively first.
BTW, and out of mere curiosity, do you have any images by your '3rd party' you could show us? If you can't -no worries.
@ Jason: one could argue that with Thea, you only pay for the plugins you actually need.
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Certainly true, but working in a large company having access to all of the Maxwell plugins can be useful -- with just one license you can have several people working in several different applications at the same time (via the plugins)... some doing scene setup (SketchUp, 3DSMax, etc.), others doing postwork (Photoshop, Nuke, After Effects). And with the 5 render nodes you could have as many as 6 scenes rendering at a time... as far as I can see the only thing the license is tied to is the computer(s) doing the actual rendering.
My point wasn't so much that Thea was a bad value, just that "value" is a subjective idea.
But yes, testing and research is the only way to know what might be your best fit.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
Certainly true, but working in a large company having access to all of the Maxwell plugins can be useful -- with just one license you can have several people working in several different applications at the same time (via the plugins)... some doing scene setup (SketchUp, 3DSMax, etc.), others doing postwork (Photoshop, Nuke, After Effects). And with the 5 render nodes you could have as many as 6 scenes rendering at a time... as far as I can see the only thing the license is tied to is the computer(s) doing the actual rendering.
My point wasn't so much that Thea was a bad value, just that "value" is a subjective idea.
But yes, testing and research is the only way to know what might be your best fit.
Best,
Jason.Forgive me, Render nodes?
Would I be correct in thinking these are seperate PC's linked together to render multiple scenes or a scene in a shorter time? -
Render nodes can be installed on all your machines in a network, the main machine with the license could be considered one render node by itself (meaning it can render) but it could also be the manager of the other networked computers.
Essentially you can render up to how many licenses you may have (in this instance 1+5) -- this can be used to render 6 different scenes or render 1 scene 6 times faster... or any combination you like.
This is particularly valuable in a large company setting because these renders can be queued up to render overnight while the staff is not using the machines for any other purpose.
A clarification of my last post -- The plugins may not be intended to be usable over several computers, that is just my experience. Meaning I have one license and use both my computers to work. While one machine is rendering I am on the other setting up scenes (SketchUp or otherwise)... It works very well for me.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
My point wasn't so much that Thea was a bad value, just that "value" is a subjective idea.
I know. And I agree.
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As Jason above mentions render nodes are a great asset for large rendering jobs, animations etc, Thea offers three nodes as a basic package as well as options to install full suite on two machines. My workflow is pretty simple if I am working on one large project and need to render I will use all 4 machines in a network setup to get the job done fast, if it's a single scene I just farm it off to one machine and keep working on a new project using my main rig. I have also started using Dropbox as a great trick instead of using the internal nodes I just pack my scene and paste into dropbox, open it up on another machine and hit render, thus I can close it on main machine and start next project.
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